Will the 5th gen wind up being the most forgotten gen?

[King of Lucario]

I too don't understand the Gen IV hate going on because it broke far more new ground than Gen V. Heck, the special/physical split alone meant more to me than anything Gen V did.

This game is upset that you forgot about it coming up with the physical/special split first:



So technically as groundbreaking as that was, Gen III was the one that initiated that change, not Gen IV.

Wow lol.

That's the first time I've ever heard of that.

Then again I never touched that game, but why does everyone credit Gen IV?

[King of Lucario]

Basically, XD Gale of Darkness featured moves with a "Shadow" type (viewed as ???-type in the actual game) that could only be used by Shadow Pokemon. The type was super-effective against normal Pokemon but not very effective against other Shadow Pokemon. Unlike the other types in Gen III however that were either physical or special depending on what type they were, some of the Shadow moves were physical and some of them were special. Although it was only with a single move type that only XD and its prequel used, the type still had a physical/special split that Gen IV would later implement with every type in the game, making XD and thus Gen III the originator of the physical/special split.

The fact that it only did it with a single type that wasn't even a regular type in the game (whereas Gen IV did the split with every single type) is the main reason why XD isn't credited with the split, but it is the game that first came up with it. Also, almost no-one played it, so most people wouldn't even know it did it at all.

Ah, gotcha. Out of all the side games, XD was the only one I regret not playing and that revelation only makes me want to play it more.

Also, I wonder if the lack of a Gen V PBR/Stadium type shindig will hurt it's longevity. Granted with Gen VI coming as fast as it did, I'm glad they waited, but it's hard not to think that Gen V got the shaft in that category.

[King of Lucario]

I'd consider XD worth a look if you can get hold of it.

Gen V lacking a Stadium/PBR equivalent is something many people have noted and felt disappointed by, especially considering the 3D Pokedex app on the 3DS showed they had new 3D models for all the Pokemon in the 'Dex. For me personally the absence of such a game has resulted in Gen V having without a doubt the most forgettable set of spin-off games of every generation (I honestly can't remember the title of any of the Gen V spin-off games off the top of my head - it's that bad) but I think whether that would make Gen V as a whole forgettable to someone would vary since there are players who ignore the spin-off games and many others who play and enjoy many of them.

I think it may affect it a little but not much, PBR to me is only really memorable because it was so terrible.

As for spin-off games I can think of Super Pokemon Rumble, Conquest and PMD: Magnagate. I would remember Pokepark 2 if I had played it. I think Typing Adventure is the main reason it came with a keyboard which ramped up the price for a game that didn't look good in the slightest

And just noticed my quote in your sig xD

Conquest is best spinoff. [/Dynasty/Samurai Warriors fanboy]

The only people who are going to forget Gen V are the bloody Genwunners. Gen V gave us so much that it's hard not to be thankful for it. The Dream World, while complete shit, did improve a large number of Pokemon, most notably older and forgotten 'mons. B2W2 included the PWT, so those complaining people would shut up about there not being all of the regions included in one game(yeah, it's just Gym Leaders and Champions, but that's a hell of a lot better than nothing and I personally prefer it to all five regions).

Being the transition phase of DS to 3DS, I'd say that Gen V did a lot of things right, and by BW making us use only regional 'mons, that makes the players have to learn and come to respect the new Pokemon instead of defaulting to what they're familiar with. I'll be the first to admit that I was very put-off by some of the Gen V pokes, but after using them, I can say with absolute certainty that most of them aren't that bad(I mean using them both in-game and competitively).

Whether some people like it or not, BW forced us to remember Gen V by making us go into the realm of the unknown. No prior Pokemon, locations, or people. We had to adjust to everything. If you don't remember it, it's because you don't want to remember it.

C
The only people who are going to forget Gen V are the bloody Genwunners.

That's not true at all. I've seen many fans of Gen III and Gen IV not care for the 5th generation either. So its not just those, "nostalgic Kanto fans," that everyone moans about.

Gen V almost felt like a filler generation, and as we get a few years into Gen VI we'll see if people look back on it fondly or not.

[King of Lucario]

I'd like to know how Gen V can be considered a "filler generation" when you had the worst Regional 'Dex ever come immediately before it (and that's not just opinion, at least half of that 'Dex may as well not even exist due to unoriginal design and/or being either obsolete or utterly useless) and before that was by far the most polarizing generation so far in Gen III, which is either loved for how great a region Hoenn was or hated for feeling like a step backward from Gen II despite the enhanced graphics and addition of abilities, to the point where many people who aren't fans of Gen III consider it to be the worst generation in the series.

For all your insistence that Gen V is so "forgettable" compared to the other generations, you've yet to give one proper reason as to why that is.

I think the huge fail that was Gen 4 could overshadow it because a lot of people tend to focus on negatives rather than positives. Despite all the praise I've seen for Gen 3 on here, in terms of online presence it seems to be incredibly forgotten. Gen 5 in my eyes will probably be as memorable as Gen 2, being rather average in memorability

[King of Lucario]

Gen IV wasn't THAT bad, let's be reasonable here, if it was then it would be the polarizing one instead of Gen III.

I'm not saying Gen 3 wasn't a fail either, its just less memorable

I find Gen III to be way more memorable than Gen IV. Gen III brought forth a huge surge of innovation in terms of natures, abilities, and a fix of the IV system. Hoenn itself had very unique towns and cities, and I'm quite sure more people wanted Dive back than Defog and Rock Climb combined. Sinnoh was the most bland region by far, the snow routes were hellishly awful, Team Galactic's outfits became an eyesore fast, and Barry was unneededly hyper. The sheer amount of evolutions added for pre-existing Pokemon was just ridiculous, and actually ruined several of their pre-evos for me(Gliscor, Weavile, Mamoswine, and Pory-Z being the only tolerable ones).

And for the few new, original Pokemon introduced by Sinnoh that I do like, I find myself wishing that Sinnoh never exist and that they were introduced in a different game. Sinnoh is far and away my least favorite region, and the level of negativity it holds negates any of the awesome that HGSS brought to Gen IV. At least one of the few good points for Gen IV is that the online mode wasn't ass.

[Linkachu]

I'd like to know how Gen V can be considered a "filler generation" when you had the worst Regional 'Dex ever come immediately before it (and that's not just opinion, at least half of that 'Dex may as well not even exist due to unoriginal design and/or being either obsolete or utterly useless)

I'd very easily debate that since many people hold particular Gen IV Pokemon in high regards (Buizel, Lucario, Infernape, Pory Z, Rotom, Abomasnow, Weavile, Togekiss, and Garchomp just to name a few of the buggers). The designs really aren't that bad or unoriginal either, especially when compared to the likes of Gen 2 which started the baby and spherical Pokemon craze. I won't deny that some of the Gen IV Pokemon are completely forgettable, if not downright bad, but the same can be said for literally every generation - including the original 151. ;x

[King of Lucario]

I probably should point out that I am a Gen III fan myself, Hoenn was a brilliant region I'd love to see explored again and I loved how Gen III initiated the generation remakes with FR/LG, but at the same time there is a lot of people who bash Gen III, and of all the generations I've seen get hated on I've found Gen III is known for getting the worst of it.

As for Gen IV, yeah it had some good stuff, but pointing that out doesn't address the real issue; all the shit that it was among. For example:

- Bibarel I'll allow since he was original with his typing and memorable for his silly design, however:
- Kricketune line was useless and forgettable.
- Luxray line looked cool but was rendered obsolete by a Pokemon that appeared in the same generation (Electivire)
- Rampardos and Bastiodon were probably the least useful fossil Pokemon ever and their designs weren't much to write home about either.
- The less said about the Burmy line(s) the better, a complete waste of 'Dex space.
- Combee and Vespiquen show that Bug/Flying have been done to death, shame since the typing is god-fucking-awful as it is.
- Pachirisu yay. At least Emolga was Electric/Flying.
- Cherrim + Groudon was cool and all but how many people like Cherrim?
- Lopunny's another dull Normal-type with no purpose.
- Purugly likewise. We've yet to see a Normal-type cat better than Persian.
- What was the point in Chingling again? Chimecho was forgettable anyway and Chingling did nothing to change that.
- Skuntank being Poison/Dark would have been cool if Drapion hadn't also done it in the same generation, and Drapion seems more noteworthy than Skuntank anyway (which is saying a lot because Drapion isn't that noteworthy itself.)
- Carnivine looked cool, venus flytrap and all that, but beyond that was pointless.
- Lumineon is the most pointless line in the entire 'Dex to date.
- Lickitung was already obsolete. Lickilicky did nothing to change that.
- Dusknoir did not need to exist and was rendered almost obsolete when Eviolite came along.
- Porygon-Z was also hurt by Eviolite's presence, and Porygon 2 is vastly preferred over it.
- I've already addressed the flaws with the Gen IV legendaries elsewhere.

The previous generations had their crap, sure, but earlier on there was less Pokemon anyway, so everything sort-of had its place bar the odd line (Ledian in Gen II, Chimecho and Masquerain in Gen III for example,) but at least most of the shit Pokemon in Gen III were memorable because of just how useless they were (no-one forgets about Spinda and Luvdisc do they?) The problem here is that due to there being more Pokemon at the time of its arrival, Gen V should have had it far worse than Gen IV did and yet there's very few forgettable/useless lines in Gen V's regional 'Dex, which was made apparent in VGC11 when that regional 'Dex was all you could use to compete. Gen IV's 'Dex in comparison makes it seem like no-one really cared when it came to fleshing it out, so they just threw in a load of crap to boost the numbers.

A handful of gems do not make up for a truckload of shit. At least people actually remember the weaker lines in Gens I-III.

[Linkachu]

As much as I agree with your points, nothing here is more than your opinion, KoL. ^^; Some of the Pokemon you listed are downright loved by people within the fandom (particularly Luxray, Dusknoir, Rampardos, Pory-Z, Mothim, and Pachirisu). Fans may not judge those Pokemon based on their competitive uses, but they still love them for what they are. And the rest you've listed really aren't any worse than filler Pokemon within other dexes.

I'm sure someone who hates Gen 3 and 5 could make lists just like yours here. Hells, I know certain people who skipped those gens entirely because they disliked the new Pokemon featured within 'em so much (same can be said for Gen IV, mind you). As for people remembering the weaker lines in Gens 1-3 verses Gen 4, that's not really true either. Pokemon like Sunkern and Luvdisc do tend to get forgotten because they aren't favoured by many people. It mostly depends on which generation a particular fan started with.

A handful of gems do not make up for a truckload of shit. At least people actually remember the weaker lines in Gens I-III.

The thing is, one can easily say the reverse of your statement here - that a handful of crap doesn't ruin an entire generation. Personally that's more my view on it too. Going through the Gen IV dex made me realize just how many of those Pokemon are loved, quite a bit at that. I only listed off a handful to make a point, not to share a comprehensive list. It'd be kinda moot to do so all things considered.

For the record, I don't particularly favour the Gen IV dex over the others (I likely favour gens 1 and 3 most) but I don't really agree with the mentality that Gen IV is terrible or uninspired when compared to the other generations, soz.

I think it was difficult for Gen IV to carve out an identity for itself in terms of Pokémon. Only 66 non-legendary Pokémon from new evolutionary lines were introduced (actually I think it may be even less than that, I just did a quick count and may have missed some). Also, some of the pre-evos they added barely appeared and were pretty useless. Who was requesting a Chimecho pre-evo? Additionally, a lot of the evolutions weren't encountered until post-story in D/P anyway.

[King of Lucario]

I don't know a single person who likes Mothim or Pachirisu. Dusknoir and Pory-Z were pointed out due to the Eviolite issue rather than being unpopular and Luxray was due to the Electivire issue (again, SAME GENERATION.) I'll give you Rampardos but personally I don't see the point of it when we've already had giant rock dinosaurs like Aggron and Rhydon.

The fact that Gen III and Gen V both had entire metagames made with their regional 'Dexes to me shows that you can't make such lists with them, players found a use for almost everything in both of those 'Dexes. Try a Gen IV 'Dex-only meta, you'll have Hippowdon-led sandstorm teams everywhere because most of the 'Dex is trash and most of the good stuff (which isn't a lot) works well with Hippowdon. Makes me glad no-one ever bothered trying that honestly.

To me this shows the difference in quality between Gen IV and Gens III and V quite prominently.

[Linkachu]

I think it was difficult for Gen IV to carve out an identity for itself in terms of Pokémon. Only 66 non-legendary Pokémon from new evolutionary lines were introduced (actually I think it may be even less than that, I just did a quick count and may have missed some). Also, some of the pre-evos they added barely appeared and were pretty useless. Who was requesting a Chimecho pre-evo? Additionally, a lot of the evolutions weren't encountered until post-story in D/P anyway.

That I agree with. When going through the Gen IV 'dex I was reminded just how small it was when you took away the legendaries and new evolutions. I guess they wanted to make it smaller due to Gen III having such a large amount of new Pokemon. For better or worse, something tells me that Gen VI will be facing a similar situation as Gen IV.

I guess they wanted to make it smaller due to Gen III having such a large amount of new Pokemon. For better or worse, something tells me that Gen VI will be facing a similar situation as Gen IV.

Yeah, they seem to alternate it each gen. Odd numbers are a new start, even numbers borrow more from other regions. I think the Gen VI 'dex will be filled with a lot of Gen V Pokémon, which I'm fine with, as it's my favourite Gen in terms of Pokémon design.

Honestly, I'm glad that they structure things like that. I think it's good to revisit old generations and give their Pokémon evolutions, because it's better to increase the concentration of useful evolution lines than to introduce more and more Ratatas and Pidgeys.